SG fan sadness... (SG: Alliance game cancelled)

[eregyrn]

Thanks to telepresence for the heads-up on this one:

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2104&Itemid=2

If this does not link you directly, the headline for the article is midway down the page.

I find this sad, because I was personally looking forward to it. I also find it sad because the show people put some amount of effort into cooperating with the project -- MS talked about having recorded 200 pages' worth of dialogue for the game, and RDA did a similar amount, I think -- and now all of that is down the drain, wasted. And, as stated previously, I'm sad because this would have been, in some ways, some "new" Jack material that we would have gotten, and "classic" Jack, classic team, at that. I also think it's kind of a bummer from a franchise POV.

However, I do understand the problem from a marketing standpoint, that there was no use bringing out a game that would already have looked out of date. That while it might have been fun for people who were already rabid SG fans, for the game to be successful and for it to be beneficial to the franchise, it needed not to incur the contempt of people who are foremost gaming aficionadoes.

It's just... still a pity that it bombed, whatever the reasons for it having bombed.

Comments

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Yikes. Now I am bummed. I looked this up yesterday and it was due to be released in April. *So confused*

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised. It sounds like this only started going around recently, and it also sounds like the "official" cancellation announcement by the company hasn't been made. But it does sound like it's fairly official. So places listing its target sale-date probably haven't gotten the memo yet.

(You can't always trust those. They're just based on company predictions and they don't always get updated in a timely manner -- even on someplace like Amazon.)

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I was just trying to keep my hopes up. This, for me, was my last shot at Jack and the "team." Now, it's over and will likely never happen again.

Funny how it's the little stupid things that seem to keep us a float sometimes. This news just shattered my day.

Not your fault, of course. Just is sad.

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

*HUG*

I felt *exactly* like this back in August. S9 had premiered and I was going through Jack-withdrawal really hard, but I was thinking, "at least I have Alliance to look forward to, which is 'new Jack' in a way" -- and then the news surfaced and I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me. I felt silly for being so bummed about it -- but I really, really was.

Now, I've had more time to get used to the idea, and also to get more used to Jack not being in S9... and also, to see that people have not (yet) stopped writing fic with Jack in it.

But I know what you mean. *hugs again*

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

No, I know. I went through this in August too. But I had put myself in a deep enough state of denial and hope that I was really rooting for this game to pull through despite its problems. I mean, a game for this franchise makes sense! And they recoridng dialogue! It would have been at least a little fun.

I've been enjoying season 9, though not all all of the chacacterization that I've seen (especially with Daniel). I know Jack is gone and I've accepted that. I am thankful he wasn't killed off and I fully support RDA wanting to spend more time with his daughter.

Online discussion, old eps and fanfic keep me going. I'll keep watching the show for now as I am still enjoying it, since I know I can at least turn to the internet to get some Jack. In fact, I've become a bigger Jack fan since he left, if that makes any sense. I see it as part of my mission, and other people's missions, to keep Jack alive. I hope people will continue to write him, create art, and keep the character running as long as we can imagine :)

Thanks, though :)

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's just it -- I'm enjoying S9 okay but I'm also a bit detached from it anyway. I'm not necessarily enjoying everything *about* it. Further, to split hairs: I *miss Jack*, but I don't necessarily miss the Jack we had in S7/S8 sometimes, and I don't mind that we don't have Jack in S9 if that was the sort of Jack we would have had. If that makes sense. (And yeah, I never minded RDA's reasons for leaving; indeed, I could somewhat understand his disconnect from the show throughout S7/S8, and think that his leaving was probably the right decision.)

I couldn't become a *bigger* Jack fan since he left, because I was already the biggest Jack fan I could imagine being. :) I was deeply, deeply hoping that others would feel the same way and help keep him alive in the fandom. I try to do my bit, although my bit is somewhat small. But I try to be really encouraging of others doing it, while also trying not to become too whiny or berating, so that I don't turn people off. But for me, it's still ALL about Jack. I *really like* all the rest. But it's Jack I love.

So I'm cautiously hopeful of what I see so far. (I'm pleased with the concept of the SG action figures, actually, even if I'm a little critical of the execution.)

But the game would have been a nice shot in the arm.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I get you. I've actually been a little uneasy at the distinct lack of Jack love out there. Now, I've always loved Jack. I love all the characters and get miffed if anyone gets into extreme character bashing, but I do love Jack more than Teal'c and Sam. Daniel is my all time fave character non-stop, but to be honest I like Jack and Daniel playing off each other the most. So my Daniel and Jack love wanes depending on what I get ;)

But I've been heartbroken that all I see is Daniel/Vala and Daniel/Cameron out there. It drives me insane. I don't know what your fic preferences are (Gen, ship or slash) but I can't find anything that is gen with a team focus (old team) or fic that is Jack/Teal'c friendship, Jack/Daniel, etc. It's so frustrating. I want Jack. Write the new characters too. But fanfic is what we have now. I want to see Jack. I miss Jack. It's not the same without Jack (even if I like Mitchell). And yet the fic has dropped off.

It's still there but I hope for a resurgence. I'm going to keep him going in the fic I am working on, but I hope other people do. I want to read him!

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Well, up front -- my fic preferences are slash and gen, and OT3 or OT4. I used to read a lot of shipfic, and I don't hate it, but I drifted away from liking most of what I was seeing. I love the team, but of all the characters, Jack is my main love and my main focus. Over time I concluded that I happen to like the way he interacts with Daniel best. My Jack love never wanes. :)

It's interesting to me how one's perspective on the fandom now varies greatly depending on so many variables. 99% of my fandom interaction now is through LJ. But I feel that LJ is really challenging to keep up with. I feel like I constantly have to be on the lookout for new people to friend as a way of following the way SG fandom is branching through LJ. And then there's experiences like this, where you and I are talking about "SG fandom" -- but just look at our respective flists. We're both in the same fandom and we have a similar desire here... but truly, we are experiencing the fandom in quite different ways.

(I used to, of course, experience the fandom mainly through mailing lists. I'm still subscribed to two Jack-centric lists, but I don't pay that much attention to them now. Stuff is still posted to them, regularly and in volume. But the quality is overall pretty low.)

So from my viewpoint... with the flist I have... I do see some Daniel/Vala and Daniel/Cam out there... but less than I feared I would see. Much less. I cast my net pretty widely, though. And I won't say that the J/D and the teamfic and the OT3 hasn't been more of a trickle, than the steady stream it was a few years ago. But for me, it's been there, and I've managed to maintain a reduced but steady diet of Jack.

What do I do? For one thing, I haunt certain archives that update regularly. And they still do -- Area52, for example. The stuff isn't always quality - indeed, from my POV, it's mostly terrible with the occasional gem. But it's there. I also keep an eye out for people who rec -- recently _minxy_ and paian have been really valuable for pointing to new J/D stuff (as well as writing it themselves).

The Pegasus B community is another place where I get more Jack -- yeah, it's an AU Jack. And the volume of posting at PegB is pretty reduced these days. But it's still there, with occasional bursts of wonderful material.

I also read the ficathons (there was a Jack/Daniel ficathon, and quite recently a couple of SG1 teamficathons). Not all of the entries are great. But again -- they toss up occasional gems. (surrealphantast just posted her SG1teamficathon entry... it is *fantastic* and *long* and has *great* Jack.) The ficathons sometimes point me towards writers I wouldn't have found out about otherwise. But a lot of people I have friended do that too, since everybody's circle is always slightly different.

What surprised me the most recently was to find that I was discovering whole handfuls of new writers who apparently got into writing J/D only recently -- Jane Davitt, Icarus Ancalion, Komos (paian on LJ). Did you read Less Than Legendary's "Retrograde", a SG1/SGA gen crossover? That was great. Icarus has a huge recs webpage that contains a bunch of SG1 recs that I didn't even recognize, and I haven't gotten around to combing through to read them all. But a lot of my old favorites still produce, too. They wander away for a while, sometimes, then return to the J/D or gen SG1-team love. (How about Cofax's "A Dirty Wind"? Mmm, post-apocalyptic team with a *great* Jack and an OT3 undertone.)

Even the series of Fandemonium novels, which unfortunately come out only at 6 month intervals, feed the need -- novel-length gen team stories, usually with a good Jack presence or focus. (Two of my all-time fav J/D writers co-wrote the latest one, which is due out in a couple of weeks.)

In summary: yeah, I feel like I've had to be creative about making sure I find it. But the Jack stuff, whether gen or slash, is definitely out there, still being produced, and some of it is just... amazing. I didn't experience what I feared when S9 debuted. I *did* think that it would be nothing but Daniel/Cameron, Daniel/Vala, and so on. And I've been pleased that that hasn't been my experience at all.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind me continuing. I find this an interesting conversation.

I was thinking about what you said--how we are both in the same fandom but are experiencing different facets. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I am mainly a Daniel fan while you are a Jack fan. Therefore, we are seeing different aspects of the fandom, with our paths often intersecting.

As a Daniel fan, I keep seeing Daniel/Cameron and Daniel/Vala popping up everywhere. I most familiar with Daniel-centric forums and Daniel lists. So it makes sense I would have people on my flist that might turn that way. Mind you I see Jack/Daniel on my flist too, but I'll get there is a second.

As a Jack fan, you probably see more Jack-centered stuff. Which makes perfect sense to me.

As a fan, I read/write gen, slash, and ship. Gen is my main stay: I love gen. I love the team, but I am partial to more Jack and Daniel centric stuff. I started writing ship for friends and I've since done some other stuff to give me something different. I have also written a few slash stories, Jack/Daniel variety. But really, gen is what I love best.

My problem is that I am a total fic snob. Honestly, I hate most stuff out there. Gen fic is slash or ship in disguise. I'm sorry but I love my Jack to be smart, strong, and witty. I expect that from my Daniel too. I go in and I want to read complex but intriguing characters. I have no desire to waste my time reading snizzley man-boys.

I hate to say this, but I think the Daniel part of the fandom is some of the worst there is. Daniel is continuously written out of character. In gen and in slash and even in ship. In contrast, the Jackfic I have found seems to be better. I'll come right out and say it. I am sure there is some bad stuff too, but they seem to have a better handle on things.

So, for me, I keep hitting horrible stuff after horrible stuff. Sure, I like to write but I'm not perfect. I want to read good fic, you know?

Due to my jaded look at writing in the fandom, my fic snobbery, and the Daniel vs Jack stuff, maybe that is why we have such a huge difference in what we're seeing. I'm starting to explore a little more. I'd love to give people a chance. LJ has been a better experience for me than elsewhere, but it really can be difficult to manage at times.

Minxy is very helpful though ;)

[tealc-junky.livejournal.com]

Dang, that's a bummer...I was actually planning on getting it if it was going to be available on PC. Can understand why they'd not want to look pathetic, though.

Oh, btw, found your journal through someone else's flist and added you, hope you don't mind.

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

I was *totally* planning to get it. Indeed, this would have been what pushed me over the edge into getting a PS2 or PS3 system.

Oh, btw, found your journal through someone else's flist and added you, hope you don't mind.

No problem. :) Except I always have that reaction of, "oh, surely I'm not *that* interesting".

[lifepawn.livejournal.com]

It wouldn't be unheard of for a different developer to get the rights and make the same game with a new engine. So there's always hope. :-)

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

I can't recall the details that clearly now, but last I heard there were some significantly byzantine problems regarding who held the licensing rights -- some feud between the holders and the developers, anyway. I don't know. It seems to be kind of complex. This was a game already due out last fall, and in August the rights-holders suddenly pulled it from the developers.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out more in the official announcement, just how dead it really is. Because I know that when this first came up back in August, people were asking similar questions about whether it might get given to some other developer. And we've been mostly waiting for news since. So this isn't a positive development.

[okojosan.livejournal.com]

That's too bad. :/ So many bad games get published every year, they could have dropped one of those and published this game which has an established fanbase. But I guess it was more than that, with problems between the publisher and the developers. I saw similar things happen, and there's nothing more annoying than to spend months or even a year working on a game, only to have the publisher decide it's not worth it and can it.

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's understandable. Sort of. I was surprised just because it seemed like this project that made it *so far* towards completion. The frustrating thing was that back in like July or so, the developer company released a "trailer" for the game -- I still have it saved to my hd. And to me... it looked cool. I realize that to a Real Gamer, it probably looked terribly out of date, but...

I just hadn't realized that the plug could be pulled so close to completion. But I guess it makes sense, that it was only when they got to that stage that the publisher was able to see how out of date it looked.

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

oh this is sad. it sounds like they put a lot of creativity into it. although what you said about the marketing issues makes sense. :)

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Yeah. *sigh*

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

maybe they'll auction the bits and pieces of it that they already did on ebay? ;)

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Nice idea, but I don't think it works like that. :)

[jenlev.livejournal.com]

:::sighs and feels pathetic:::

i wish it did. *veg*

[paian]

Crap. I was holding on to that other-developer-will-pick-it-up sliver of hope before, but this doesn't sound good at all. I'm bummed too. It would have been like being with the old team again. :-(

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Meh.

I kind of wonder if the concept of a SG-based game will get picked up again someday. But at this point, it seems more likely to me that if it does (i.e. if the franchise keeps going and they want to expand it in that way), they will start over in concept and perhaps aim it at the "current team"... or even SGA. *sigh* (Maybe I'm wrong about that, because what do I know about game developing? Still.)

[paian]

It seems like a lucrative market to exploit, so probably someone will. But I'm afraid you're right, and I keep wincingly longingly thinking of all that RDA and MS recorded dialogue. It would make sense to me to offer three games -- SGA, current SG-1, and SG-1 Classic. But what do I know either, except what I'd be likely to buy.

The problem with them starting over is that they'll probably scrap all that lovely dialogue, and how will they voice Jack then? They'd be awfully lucky to get RDA to put any more time in on something like that. No matter how good an impersonator they got, I can't imagine any faked Jack-voice satisfying die-hard, discerning fans.

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Here's my guess (tempered by a huge heap of "What do *I* know?"):

If they let it lie long enough, they may decide to re-approach the whole concept. Especially if, at that time, they determine that the current SG1 is what more people know, and therefore what they should go with; or if SGA significantly surpasses SG1 in popularity and thus viability.

I always thought it was interesting that SG1 has been retooled, but that some of the franchise-related things they were bringing out, like the game and the action-figures, were geared towards Classic SG1. Not the new stuff coming out, but the old stuff. That surprised me, even if it made me happy. Despite the omnipresence of SG1 in reruns on SciFi, doesn't it seem a bit odd that the game and the action figures make Jack front and center, when he's not *on* the show any more?

At any rate...

Now, my guess further is that if they looked at this project sometime within the next year, they might decide they still want to bring out a Classic SG1 game... and if they actually *do* decide that, then I would guess/hope that they would use the material that is already in the can. Why scrap 200 pages' worth of script that's already recorded by all the principals? Why scrap all of that face-scanning and all the rest? Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to use all that? *If* you're willing to bring out a game with the old team, in the first place.

Because as I understood it, the problem wasn't the game's script. It was how it LOOKED and the functional mechanics of how it played and so on. That suggests to me that you could use the existing storyline/script (if it isn't proprietary in some way), and focus on design and on building an engine that would be more cutting-edge.

The unknown factors, though, include who owns the rights to all of that material, and what the contract for the use of the actors' images/voices covered (would those contracts have to be renegotiated?).

So I'd worry about proprietary issues making it difficult for them to use the existing material. And I'd worry about the game concept sitting on the shelf for so long that by the time anyone returns to it, the New SG1 is well-enough entrenched that it doesn't make sense to make a game focused on the Old SG1.

Telepresence tells me, though, that we are in good company. Apparently there was some kick-ass Babylon 5 game that got very near completion before the plug was pulled on it. Apparently Bab5 fans are still bitter. Not an *encouraging* tale, of course...

[radiotelescope.livejournal.com]

"Because as I understood it, the problem wasn't the game's script. It was how it LOOKED and the functional mechanics of how it played and so on."

That's what I saw reported. And, believe me, no videogame is *ever* cancelled because of a bad script.

(Read into that all the bitterness you want.)

Given that this game wasn't just cancelled, but went down in a welter of lawsuits, I am gloomily confident that none of the material will ever resurface. Well, at least the actors (presumably) got paid up front.

[eregyrn.livejournal.com]

Given that this game wasn't just cancelled, but went down in a welter of lawsuits, I am gloomily confident that none of the material will ever resurface.

I had meant to append this idea to my guesswork -- but, yeah. The acrimonious disputes between the developer and publisher didn't bode well for the resurrection of the original game-concept including that material, presuming the legal battles drag on.

It's worth wondering who owns the rights to the material. I kind of doubt it was the developer... but I don't really know how this stuff works.

But the disputes suggest two things to me. One, that while they are going on, the dispute will diminish enthusiasm on the part of MGM or whoever for the entire concept of trying to get a game developed. And two, that if the concept of a game ever does emerge from that tar-pit, the parent company responsible for the decision may just see it as easier and "cleaner" to start afresh with a game concept totally unrelated to "Alliance". (Or indeed, that may be an actual legal necessity, depending on how the legal disputes are settled.)

Bleah.